Post by mrhanalei on Aug 1, 2007 12:22:58 GMT -5
Sorry, i was away for a while. Long tech post ahaed...... ;D
I'm going to go into the very basics about "lossless" and compresed music file. So please don't think I'm trying to insult anyones intelligenge, it just seems that a few here don't understand the difference. I've touched on it before in random threads but I'll consolidate here. I'll also explain ways to get the best possible recording and possible help someone out for recording live shows.
Sorry, If I backtrack in this thread, there's a lot of info to go over.
This is a continuation of the "patio setlist" thread but I think it would be better by itself.
cont from patio setlist thread...
Tim, I had to record from the webcast because I'm in MI. Can't get CYY except through the web.
I'm not sure about stereo or mono. I'm pretty sure webcasts are stereo though. That's not the issue though.
The heart of the matter is that all webcasts are compressed in some way to ensure that it plays correctly. This is a bandwidth issue. The websteam can't handle really high quality audio and stream it too thousands of people. You would get buffering issues (the music stops while the stream catches up to itself).
Anytime you compress music, you are losing "sonic" quality. The reason MP3, are so small is because it's actually deleting some of the sonic frequencies of the music. A perfect example is if when you have an MP3 that sounds like it's "underwater".
Listen for the cymbals. The cymbals are a very high frequency and when you compress to MP3 it degrades the "sharpness" of them.
So recording from the radio would have been the best possible "source" that you could get outside of plugging right into the sound board or recording the show yourself (more on that later). Radio doesn't need to compress anything.
Of course uncompressed files are around 10 times bigger than MP3 files. (about 50 megabytes per 5 minutes) but once you HEAR the difference side by side, you can start to understand.
MP3s are great for ipods or whatever but when listening through a home stereo the difference is huge.
So now I'll hit on some recording. I'm not sure if there will be any more CYY streams but I'll touch on how to record from the radio and give a beginning to end play by play so to speak on how to get the best quality (this will also be exactly what you do if someone records a show as well (again, more on that in a bit).
This will also work for people who have audio cassettes of Rustic shows that might not have gotten out yet. Audience recordings from the old days vary greatly in quality (most were recorded with a boombox, but you guys may be sitting on some unheard gems.
So your first step would be getting your stereo hooked up to your sound card.
This is done my taking the RCA jack "line out" of your stereo and getting it into your sound card. This is done with this (about $5)
The red and white plugs go into your stereo's "line out" and the headphone jack going into your sound card's "line in"
Start Audacity (google) and start recording to a WAV file. Adjust levels before hand to make sure you are not recording too loud or too soft.
You will end up with a large single .wav file when you are done. This is going to be the best possible quality file of the recording you will ever have.
You can then use Audacity to cut the songs down into single tracks and once you play around with Audacity you can do what Tim has done (great job!) to a few tracks and make them sound better (removing tape hiss is a major one for transferring from cassettes). Be careful though you can get carried away here and actually make them sound worse. Always "remaster" when listening through a decent stereo and start with small changes. You can always "undo" your last change if it doesn't sound good.
Now you will have your single LOSSLESS files. You can make the files smaller by converting them to FLAC using dBpoweramp and the FLAC codec (again, google is your friend). This process makes them a little smaller for downloads but doesn't change the sonic quality of the file at all. And it's just a "right click file > convert to FLAC" process.
So enough about that, I'm sure myself, more people here, or google can help you if you actually start doing this.
So now the most important part of this thread (IMO)!!!!!!!!!!
Let's get some shows recorded!!!
The first thing to do is find out Rustic's recording policy. Some bands do not allow you to record their shows and some venues do not allow you to record in the building. Since most of the people here are portland locals and some even know the band, I'm sure that this will never be a problem.
There are many ways to record live and they range in price from "free with what you have laying around" to anywhere from $50 to THOUSANDS.
Obviously we don't need to be talking about thousands of dollars and I have made recordings with "free with what I had laying around" that sound just as good as other recordings that someone did with $200 microphones and and $500 digital recorder.
So here's what you need.
1. A recorder and a microphone. Simple huh?
If you google "DAT recorder" you can see all your options for small sized digital recorders of various price ranges. But all those are basically a "LAPTOP WITH AUDACITY" ;D
So all you want to do is get a decent microphone (a $10 radioshack mic isn't going to cut it). I use a Peavey PVM-46 (about $129 brand new but of course ebay is cheaper). I'm sure it's not the best and maybe there's better for cheaper, but I got it very cheap and I don't have any complaints. I'm sure if you ask around someone is going to have a good mic you can borrow for the night.
All you have to do is get an adapter that takes the 1/4" mic plug and makes it a 1/8" "headphone jack". Plug that into to "mic in" on the laptop, start Audacity and record. You can track it down when you get home.
So where to setup??? Make friends with the sound guy, but don't annoy him, he has work to do. Ask him if you can set up your laptop and a mic near him, after all he's in that spot for a reason (best sound). He might even let you plug into the soundboard itself and that is HEAVEN!!!!!!
Now, if you can't get near the soundboard, the center balcony is great too. You just want to be away from a lot of people if possible (so they don't knock the laptop over and so you won't hear people talking bullshit over the music).
But, pretty much set up anywhere you can. If you're the only one recording you are THE ONLY CHANCE that a recording of the show will be available.
I have close to 500 Gigabytes of "homemade" live music on my computer and I have some poor quality shows that I still listen too because the performance was just that good.
Okay, my hands are cramping now so I'll take a break.
Questions, comments, go fuck myself??? ;D
I'm going to go into the very basics about "lossless" and compresed music file. So please don't think I'm trying to insult anyones intelligenge, it just seems that a few here don't understand the difference. I've touched on it before in random threads but I'll consolidate here. I'll also explain ways to get the best possible recording and possible help someone out for recording live shows.
Sorry, If I backtrack in this thread, there's a lot of info to go over.
This is a continuation of the "patio setlist" thread but I think it would be better by itself.
cont from patio setlist thread...
Tim, I had to record from the webcast because I'm in MI. Can't get CYY except through the web.
I'm not sure about stereo or mono. I'm pretty sure webcasts are stereo though. That's not the issue though.
The heart of the matter is that all webcasts are compressed in some way to ensure that it plays correctly. This is a bandwidth issue. The websteam can't handle really high quality audio and stream it too thousands of people. You would get buffering issues (the music stops while the stream catches up to itself).
Anytime you compress music, you are losing "sonic" quality. The reason MP3, are so small is because it's actually deleting some of the sonic frequencies of the music. A perfect example is if when you have an MP3 that sounds like it's "underwater".
Listen for the cymbals. The cymbals are a very high frequency and when you compress to MP3 it degrades the "sharpness" of them.
So recording from the radio would have been the best possible "source" that you could get outside of plugging right into the sound board or recording the show yourself (more on that later). Radio doesn't need to compress anything.
Of course uncompressed files are around 10 times bigger than MP3 files. (about 50 megabytes per 5 minutes) but once you HEAR the difference side by side, you can start to understand.
MP3s are great for ipods or whatever but when listening through a home stereo the difference is huge.
So now I'll hit on some recording. I'm not sure if there will be any more CYY streams but I'll touch on how to record from the radio and give a beginning to end play by play so to speak on how to get the best quality (this will also be exactly what you do if someone records a show as well (again, more on that in a bit).
This will also work for people who have audio cassettes of Rustic shows that might not have gotten out yet. Audience recordings from the old days vary greatly in quality (most were recorded with a boombox, but you guys may be sitting on some unheard gems.
So your first step would be getting your stereo hooked up to your sound card.
This is done my taking the RCA jack "line out" of your stereo and getting it into your sound card. This is done with this (about $5)
The red and white plugs go into your stereo's "line out" and the headphone jack going into your sound card's "line in"
Start Audacity (google) and start recording to a WAV file. Adjust levels before hand to make sure you are not recording too loud or too soft.
You will end up with a large single .wav file when you are done. This is going to be the best possible quality file of the recording you will ever have.
You can then use Audacity to cut the songs down into single tracks and once you play around with Audacity you can do what Tim has done (great job!) to a few tracks and make them sound better (removing tape hiss is a major one for transferring from cassettes). Be careful though you can get carried away here and actually make them sound worse. Always "remaster" when listening through a decent stereo and start with small changes. You can always "undo" your last change if it doesn't sound good.
Now you will have your single LOSSLESS files. You can make the files smaller by converting them to FLAC using dBpoweramp and the FLAC codec (again, google is your friend). This process makes them a little smaller for downloads but doesn't change the sonic quality of the file at all. And it's just a "right click file > convert to FLAC" process.
So enough about that, I'm sure myself, more people here, or google can help you if you actually start doing this.
So now the most important part of this thread (IMO)!!!!!!!!!!
Let's get some shows recorded!!!
The first thing to do is find out Rustic's recording policy. Some bands do not allow you to record their shows and some venues do not allow you to record in the building. Since most of the people here are portland locals and some even know the band, I'm sure that this will never be a problem.
There are many ways to record live and they range in price from "free with what you have laying around" to anywhere from $50 to THOUSANDS.
Obviously we don't need to be talking about thousands of dollars and I have made recordings with "free with what I had laying around" that sound just as good as other recordings that someone did with $200 microphones and and $500 digital recorder.
So here's what you need.
1. A recorder and a microphone. Simple huh?
If you google "DAT recorder" you can see all your options for small sized digital recorders of various price ranges. But all those are basically a "LAPTOP WITH AUDACITY" ;D
So all you want to do is get a decent microphone (a $10 radioshack mic isn't going to cut it). I use a Peavey PVM-46 (about $129 brand new but of course ebay is cheaper). I'm sure it's not the best and maybe there's better for cheaper, but I got it very cheap and I don't have any complaints. I'm sure if you ask around someone is going to have a good mic you can borrow for the night.
All you have to do is get an adapter that takes the 1/4" mic plug and makes it a 1/8" "headphone jack". Plug that into to "mic in" on the laptop, start Audacity and record. You can track it down when you get home.
So where to setup??? Make friends with the sound guy, but don't annoy him, he has work to do. Ask him if you can set up your laptop and a mic near him, after all he's in that spot for a reason (best sound). He might even let you plug into the soundboard itself and that is HEAVEN!!!!!!
Now, if you can't get near the soundboard, the center balcony is great too. You just want to be away from a lot of people if possible (so they don't knock the laptop over and so you won't hear people talking bullshit over the music).
But, pretty much set up anywhere you can. If you're the only one recording you are THE ONLY CHANCE that a recording of the show will be available.
I have close to 500 Gigabytes of "homemade" live music on my computer and I have some poor quality shows that I still listen too because the performance was just that good.
Okay, my hands are cramping now so I'll take a break.
Questions, comments, go fuck myself??? ;D
). You can believe that if I was still in NH..... EVERY show would be recorded!! ;D
) You don't want to be walking around and "moving the mic" all the time. That is one of the biggest reasons why a recording borders on "unlistenable". It's very disorienting trying to listen to something (sitting in a chair in your house) but it sounds like you're 
